1). How do you use feedback? (Do you take into consideration if its someone you know/don’t know, want to impress etc… Why)
Feedback can be touchy as a subject and everything around it. Sometimes you got to keep your mouth shut and sometimes you just have to express what's on your mind. When I get feedback, there are two things I consider. a) is it relevant? b) does the person offering feedback have a point?
2). How do you give feedback? (Do you say what you think they want to hear or do you provoke? Why)
I try to be honest and give constructive feedback. Sometimes, I have to gage if the person on the receiving end will get it. It's about helping, not being mean.
3). Share your top 3 annoying facts about Substacks… I don’t want you to shame anyone, just say 3 things you don’t like in posts/newsletters/Notes that it puts you off so much you are on the edge of unsubscribing from an account.
I am so so, I have sold so many books, I have written so many books. Gets me each time. If I see it frequently it will make me unsubscribe. I don't care, I want good writing and engaging communication.
1.) When I ASK for feedback, I provide a set of questions to guide them in which areas I want specific feedback on, and ‘anything else’. I take it neutrally - I may or may not take their feedback on but I always thank them for taking the time.
When I don’t ask for feedback, but consent is implicit because I’ve published on a public platform, I take it neutrally. I will cut the heads off real trolls though - it may be public but it’s still my space.
How we I find that most troll behaving people aren’t really trolls - just ignorant or lacking etiquette.
2.) I ask for them to give me some guidance on what exactly they want feedback on, so I can ensure my time is spent wisely and I will be useful to them.
Otherwise I offer positive feedback because I feel like it.
3.) I don’t like paywalled content - if it’s paid, just don’t show me any of it.
I don’t like how Notes is quite heavy on the algo now, when it didn’t used to be.
I wished there wasn’t the like button that hits that dopamine. Just good old fashioned views and comments - although I admit I use the like button to show appreciation without having to comment. I wonder if I would engage with commenting more, if I didn’t have the option to press like.
My substack is currently completely free. I’m considering turning on paid subs - without adding any perks. Everyone gets the same stuff but you can get a sub if you like!
You didn’t tell us what you write about. I’m not sure how you got here today and if you already know some of the contributors. It’s been a pleasure having you over.
Yes, so many people are talking about that now. I've no idea what's going on. Some say there is no algorithm, some say there is. I would imagine part of it is to do with people they have specifically invited here, as they have to ensure they start earning money quickly. But who knows? There seems to be some very odd things going on with Notes, where you've got people that are getting a ridiculously high level of engagement, whilst others are getting very little, even though their Notes are bloody fantastic. It's just very odd. I guess no one really knows why one thing does better than something else, that seems just as good and deserves to do well. There's just too many factors involved... 😎
That's right. I hear from people invited on here that there is the algorithm. First we were told post on Notes and now not a big deal if you post on Notes. I've noticed a great deal less views on my stack and I wonder how that affects engagement. I try not to dwell on it too much.
I have a feeling they want to shift more to audio/video, as that's what the market wants. They are very keen to bring over big Tik Tokers and YouTubers. But I really hope that doesn't become the focus. Because we have to keep writing alive! 😎
You've got the sensors out. I mean video is cool. I notice I look at videos too. But I also like writing. A totally different skill and expertise in that. They may compliment each other but not interchangeable.
Hello Co-Create and welcome to this space! I love that part about specific feedback request. That means you know what areas in your work need attention and you concentrate on that. How are you finding that works? Trolls vs etiquette lack is another matter altogether and yes you are right it’s your space you need to deal with accordingly.
The feedback structure works well. I think a lot of creatives end up in a trap of taking feedback personally (good and bad) rather than just taking it as information.
1) receiving feedback? If it’s a typo or grammar issue, I fix it. If it’s clear they haven’t caught up with the serial, I suggest they do that.
2) giving? Only when asked (aside from typos. Thank god for DMs so I don’t have to publicly comment those any more) and then vewwy vewwy carefuwwy.
3) posts that are free to read but only paid subscribers can comment; podcasts or talking head videos with no transcript (hey, I actually prefer to read)
Yes I forgot about those read but no comment posts. It took me a long while to get that when I was new here. But I found a way. If you restack with a note, you can comment and do them a favour too by restacking. Thank you for being here today Leanne!
Absolutely. Pay to Comment, that is crazy. I've seen quite a few doing that. Although, I've also seen a couple of people who clicked that option by mistake and didn't realise they'd done it! 😎
It’s not that I’m back, I just found some free time. The thing about commenting on paid posts, is that you can’t open it up to free comments. If it’s a paid post, only paid subscribers can comment.
That's right. That makes sense for Paid content, and that keeps all that separate for those Subscribers. But what's stranger is when the post itself is free to read, but the comments are locked to Paid Subscribers only. There are probably several reasons why people do this, such as deterring trolling or just because the amount of Comments is too much otherwise, but it can cause a frustrating reader experience... 😎
I did see @The Man Behind the Screen complain that the option for paid commenters only kept coming on even after the turned it off. But still, it’s annoying. @Writer Pilgrim I do like the idea of restacking with a note!
Could there be a glitch on the system? Restack with a note. But then again if they don't want comments why would you promote their work, comment or engage with it? I've read from some creators that they want to spare their community and keep them safe because they get personal on comments. I keep my comments open and find that people get quite personal. At the end of the day, you post something online in a private comments box with the potential of 1-1000 people looking at it, screen shoting it etc, you cannot be serious about worrying about the personal aspect. It's on the page, it's online, it's access to anyone and everyone. The other aspect, which I think is more realistic is not so much about the welfare or the audience, but more about the time consuming point of answering to posts. At least the paid members are getting comments acknowledged. The rest will not be able to post. It's easier to manage a limited selection of subscribed readers.
And would you believe, the latest Song Title Post has just gone to 'Paid Comments Only'. So I can't reply to Gloria. I know it's not your fault, and it's just the way Substack have the Paywall situation set up. But the irony! Just as we're talking about it. Haha... 😎
That's an excellent point. It probably does make sense for people with thousands of Subscribers to lock the Comments to Paid only, as it could easily get unmanageable otherwise. I wouldn't do that myself, because I want everyone to feel welcome to express themselves and be part of the community on my page, but of course, I don't have hundreds Commenting! Haha. It could also be to deter trolling, for sure... 😎
Sorry, I missed it again! I appreciate you mentioning me, and your patience. So although I’m late to the party, I will say
1) I love honest feedback, whether it’s positive or negative.
2) I generally go with the rule that if I don’t have anything kind to say, I say nothing at all. (Please folks, I do not read a lot of posts, so don’t think my silence applies to you!— I try to limit my time on Substack because it works better for my lifestyle)
3) I agree with you on the people that tell me how successful and wonderful they are straight up front, as though I would be an idiot not to subscribe. The other thing that bothers me are folks who badger people about proper formatting of poems, or punctuation… I mean, as long as you get your point across, who cares if you are writing traditionally, or in a style that is all your own?
Happy to have you over and answer these questions. The formatting thing, if a poem is a poem and written like a normal piece of text, I struggle to see the poetry effect. It steals away some meaning. I know that’s something I need to work on and the artist’s own creativity and decision, but it ain’t that easy. It’s like a song without melody. I guess some poets, refuse to realise they write poetry and let it be in whatever shape or form.
I agree that a poem should have some kind of poetic structure. That’s not what I was referring to. I saw a good poet get badgered because of where and when he used a comma. And although pause can be important for meaning, I had no problem catching the meaning—but this guy would not let it go. It did not involve me, I just happened to notice it with someone else I follow, in the comments section.
It was like an Oxford headmaster handing out lashes, lol. I do not mind someone adhering to tradition, but different forms of poetry have emerged in the last 300 years, which, to my knowledge, have been accepted.
The comma police in action. At the end of the day, as a creator you need to decide. And the critics will always want to have a field day one way or another right?
Jun 21·edited Jun 21Liked by Writer Pilgrim by So Elite
I don’t know how much time I have. The wife’s sleeping beside me and feeling under the weather. We’re at my cousin’s house in Assendelft. But feedback? That’s a hard one for me. I don’t get a lot of it. I put my stories out there, and maybe get three or four comments. Some of them are absolutely amazing, and leave me feeling gob-smacked. I’ve yet to have anything negative. I do have a paywall up, and leave a little of it up for people to read, hoping they might want to sign up, but it’s not a big deal. If they want to sign up, they will. I’ve taken to reading my Sunday After Eight stories in video format. I didn’t do that because Substack brought that option in, I started doing it before they made their big push. I also put the printed version up with it as well. Some people want to read, and some people have issues and prefer to hear the story being read to them. I get very few comments though. So I’m up in the air as far as comments go.
I like to leave comments when something strikes me. I don’t want to leave critiques, because this isn’t a critiquing page. I will point out spelling and grammar issues, because we all want that. I tend to leave long comments, as I’m sure some of you have noticed. It’s not that I’m an expert here, but sometimes people want to hear things from a different perspective. Nobody knows what’s going to hit or miss, and if telling someone they’ve hit it out of the ballpark is going to make them feel good, why not? We all like that adrenaline rush. I know I do.
Having been away on vay-cay has been great for me. I’ve got the wife’s old iPad and have been using it to work on my serial THE SHIELD OF LOCKSLEY. I’ve been writing and editing it at the same time. It’s one of those paywalled pieces though. I’ve gotten nice comments, but I only have 20 paid subscribers. But that doesn’t matter to me. I simply have to give them something different from the After Eights. I’m thinking of leaving the first part up for free and maybe pushing that a little harder. Maybe finding some comments along the way.
I have a book tube channel and have been trying to figure out how I can synced them both together. I don’t get a lot of comments there either. I guess that means I have to up my game. Lately, I’ve been thinking of making my own stop action video commercials. That might bring in comments. As it is right now, I just plug away at my stories and hope for the best. It’s like making spaghetti. I throw it against the wall to see what sticks.
First of all great to read this and get a different viewpoint! My only critique is that no one throws spaghetti against the wall! Surely! Hahahahahaha.
Hope vay cay goes well and that wife feels better. Lots of adventures for you guys. 20 paid is good! I think in order to get comments you need to get to visit other creators and comment on their stuff and they get back to you as returned favour, not obligation and that brings in others who notice you. That’s my experience. I don’t have the insider info as I’ve done all on my own when I started from scratch in here. I didn’t bring anyone from anywhere else.
I think Feedback is great, particularly when you're posting in a public place like this. It's good to hear what people think, and what they're enjoying, and what you can improve on. No matter how experienced you are, there's always room to learn new things and grow, so I welcome any Comments. It's interesting to Note that getting no Comments and Likes is also Feedback, I suppose. I've changed tactics on here quite a few times, when it was obvious people just weren't into things.
I enjoy giving Feedback, too. I try to leave Comments where I can. Usually positive. I don't tend to go into too much depth here, as I also do occasional paid consulting work, where I critique things very fully and even offer guidance on where changes should be made and so on. Mostly for scripts, but sometimes Fiction as well. That, I think, is a much more personal thing anyway and is something that should be asked for if the writer wants help in that way.
I agree with others, the Paywalling is a big issue on here. I personally think the way things are set up at the moment will probably need to change soon. It just doesn't work and people can't enjoy the work they want to enjoy. They would be much better having a single monthly Subscription that gives you access to everything, the same way Medium and Kindle Unlimited do it, and then everyone shares in a portion of the money when one of their articles is read by a paid Subscriber to the site. Of course, it would mean people would earn less overall, but it would give more writers a chance to make money from their work, as people wouldn't be in the position they're in now where they can only realistically pay to Subscribe to a small handful... 😎
Chen made some really useful comment on the lack of feedback. It’s not necessarily about talent but readers have so much else to get through and read and not everyone opens every email. But of course, if you have let’s say a few fave stacks you tend to check on them regularly. Still, we cannot avoid the main issue, the quality of work because we beat ourselves up about that again and again.
Jun 20·edited Jun 20Liked by Writer Pilgrim by So Elite
It's just incredibly difficult. Because of course, you can end up thinking the quality wasn't there when things don't do well, but you're right, it could also just be bad timing. People just have too many things to read on here. I'd love to read more, but I'd never get any of my own work done! I do manage to keep up regularly with about a dozen Stacks, though... 😎
Absolutely. You have to make your own writing a priority, and ensure you're always keeping things moving forward. But of course, regularly reading the work of others is important, too, as it's not only entertaining, it also helps you grow and can open your eyes to new possibilities! 😎
It's been a few weeks. Busy at work and then my little vacation over to Iceland.
1) Hmm. Feedback. Yes feedback, it is a touchy subject. Of course, we all like to get positive feedback and great comments. Negative feedback, not so much. As you say, Pilgrim, analyzing the reasoning behind it can be interesting. Do they have a point, or are they just in a bad mood and your post/comment is the first one they see. Unless they offer a positive suggestion, I usually just acknowledge and ignore.
2) I try to give constructive feedback wherever it is warranted. Negative jabs do not do anyone any good in the long run.
3) Annoying things on Substack:
- I agree with the pay walling. A paywall in the middle of an article is so annoying.
- Sometimes when you comment on a Note, the platform sends you all the way back somewhere else so you need to scroll down to find the Notes you were just reading. Gets tiring after a while.
- The repetitive handful of people plugging their courses or workshops on how do be better on Substack. I'm OK with the "being a better writer" Notes and posts, but the others, not so much.
Welcome back Sunhats! How was the trip to Iceland? Are you preparing a post on this? There's a lot of plugging going on for sure. I may be one of them, hope I'm not plugging away too much.
1. When it's positive I often think they're just too kind. Or that it's some magic. a wonder.
Unless it's very detailed.
When it's negative I go through usual stuff-defence(no one can see it), maybe sadness, maybe amusement...sometimes I also think they're too kind to give me feedback.
To put it briefly: I take it seriously, and according to how I am. Even more seriously, I take the lack of feedback.
But I won't write according to it all -I'd want to, but all in me will scream that I'm a sell out, that it's not me.
Advice can be superhelpful, -I wish I 'd get more advice.
OK. it starts being too long as I write as I think, and my thoughts are especially disordered right now.
2) I write what I feel. It can be too overwhelming, I think, I can get very passionate, and start rambling-so sometimes I make a separate note of it, so it won't clutter other people's pages. I also ask sometimes what's appropriate-in advance. It feels like I'm often not very appropriate. Not in a bad way, just..too intense?
3) I don't know about three things, but I kinda dislike Notes in general. They're too....FB vibe. If I wanted to be on FB I'd be on FB. Maybe my mood contributes to it too, I don't know. I like the fact that posts can be shared-that's how one saves things and finds what to read etc. otherwise...overwhelming. And I'm not witty these days. And not very social. To put it mildly.
You give us such valuable things to consider here Chen. What I've seen from your work is that you write your own poems and you also do translations of work to English from Russian and Hebrew right? How do you deal with feedback on work that you've translated?
yes, more or less....sometimes I'd translate to Russian which frankly how it should be, only I'm bad at all of them, so))
Most valuable feedback is when people know the languages in question, so if they tell me it's good it makes me really happy. If they say nothing-I, in my head, think "I didn't do a good job"
If others like it I'm also happy -it means I did manage to capture something important.
Usually people are too kind to say "hey your translation sucks"))
when nobody reads, or reads but I've no idea what they think?
actually reasons can be very neutral, for example I was getting couple Stacks in my email for a few years, without knowing that it's on some Substack which is a platform-and one can like, comment, etc. Somebody recommended to me these-and I subsribed without much further attempts of participation, just like you would to anything. Reader mode only
-or some people know it's a platform etc, they just prefer reader mode, at least in your case
-or some people subscribe to too many newletters, they hardly open them all
-or they have different email for all that jazz that they check only once in a while
-or they have their own thing going on and are not in the mood
-but I of course first think that I don't deliver, they don't like the post, I disappoint them, they come for other things, and am talentless whatever. All of which are also valid reasons.
There's so many reasons why things don't do well on here. I think the biggest one is that people just don't have the time to read everything. A lot of it probably is just luck and timing. I guess the more content you have up, though, the more chance there is of someone spotting it. So we've just got to keep Posting and hope for the best! 😎
There's so many reasons why things don't do well on here. I think the biggest one is that people just don't have the time to read everything. A lot of it probably is just luck and timing. I guess the more content you have up, though, the more chance there is of someone spotting it. So we've just got to keep Posting and hope for the best! 😎
Hello, everyone! It's been a few weeks! I'm glad to be back. I hope you've all been well!
1. I am still learning to use feedback. It's difficult to know when someone is giving you honest feedback. You have to find people you trust who aren't afraid to be honest.
2. I try to find something positive to say, especially if I am being critical. Most written work has room for improvement and praise.
3. I haven't unsubscribed from anyone's newsletter. Substack is a rainbow in the mirky skies of social media. I rarely see anything bothersome.
Thanks for hosting this event, Pilgrim! Sorry that I haven't been a regular lately!
1) How do you use feedback? --Well first I gotta get feedback. Most are scared of me : )
2) How do you give feedback? --Of course I say what you want to hear. What kinda jerk do I look like? I'll tell you what kind. If Stephen King wanted my honest opinion, I'd slap the smug grin off his face
3) Share your top 3 annoying facts about Substack --1. The Substack 'bot is a hopeless fool. 2. When someone Unsubscribes from you, you aren't told. 3. When someone Blocks you, you aren't told.
Chen is right on the unsubscribe. Go to Dashboard, choose settings, top right of page (using computer) and scroll down to Notifications where you click or unclick so you find out when someone unsubscribes.
Oh this is good to know because I always end up wondering who it is! Sometimes I think it’s one of my email newsletter people making an account on Substack.
Hi Richard and welcome back! I wish I could follow whether you are serious or joking or both. Then I remember you posted about this a while ago. Cleverly so! Do you want people to be scared? Is that like a thing? And why would you say what I want to hear. You don’t do that in here though.
I'm always joking. Seriously joking, or jokingly serious. And thanks to Chen for the work-throughs. I'll try these, but as with the 'bot, it's like I got a different interface. Things don't work, and the 'bot says he (she?) will send it up the ladder. I never hear back.
And your other questions are darling, Ms. Writer Pilgrim. I don't remember posting anything about this in the past. But writers tend to sound like themselves, no matter what they say. And no, I don't want people to be scared. But I got a lot of opinions, and that scares (some) people. Is it a thing? I don't know. You need a couch and a pen and notebook. Finally I rarely read other's work. Writers make lousy judges. They try to make everyone write like them : )
1). How do you use feedback? (Do you take into consideration if its someone you know/don’t know, want to impress etc… Why)
Feedback can be touchy as a subject and everything around it. Sometimes you got to keep your mouth shut and sometimes you just have to express what's on your mind. When I get feedback, there are two things I consider. a) is it relevant? b) does the person offering feedback have a point?
2). How do you give feedback? (Do you say what you think they want to hear or do you provoke? Why)
I try to be honest and give constructive feedback. Sometimes, I have to gage if the person on the receiving end will get it. It's about helping, not being mean.
3). Share your top 3 annoying facts about Substacks… I don’t want you to shame anyone, just say 3 things you don’t like in posts/newsletters/Notes that it puts you off so much you are on the edge of unsubscribing from an account.
I am so so, I have sold so many books, I have written so many books. Gets me each time. If I see it frequently it will make me unsubscribe. I don't care, I want good writing and engaging communication.
1.) When I ASK for feedback, I provide a set of questions to guide them in which areas I want specific feedback on, and ‘anything else’. I take it neutrally - I may or may not take their feedback on but I always thank them for taking the time.
When I don’t ask for feedback, but consent is implicit because I’ve published on a public platform, I take it neutrally. I will cut the heads off real trolls though - it may be public but it’s still my space.
How we I find that most troll behaving people aren’t really trolls - just ignorant or lacking etiquette.
2.) I ask for them to give me some guidance on what exactly they want feedback on, so I can ensure my time is spent wisely and I will be useful to them.
Otherwise I offer positive feedback because I feel like it.
3.) I don’t like paywalled content - if it’s paid, just don’t show me any of it.
I don’t like how Notes is quite heavy on the algo now, when it didn’t used to be.
I wished there wasn’t the like button that hits that dopamine. Just good old fashioned views and comments - although I admit I use the like button to show appreciation without having to comment. I wonder if I would engage with commenting more, if I didn’t have the option to press like.
Like your take on paywalled stuff. How does your stack work? with Paywall or not? The algo is clear as I am getting a lot less traffic these days.
My substack is currently completely free. I’m considering turning on paid subs - without adding any perks. Everyone gets the same stuff but you can get a sub if you like!
You didn’t tell us what you write about. I’m not sure how you got here today and if you already know some of the contributors. It’s been a pleasure having you over.
Yes, so many people are talking about that now. I've no idea what's going on. Some say there is no algorithm, some say there is. I would imagine part of it is to do with people they have specifically invited here, as they have to ensure they start earning money quickly. But who knows? There seems to be some very odd things going on with Notes, where you've got people that are getting a ridiculously high level of engagement, whilst others are getting very little, even though their Notes are bloody fantastic. It's just very odd. I guess no one really knows why one thing does better than something else, that seems just as good and deserves to do well. There's just too many factors involved... 😎
That's right. I hear from people invited on here that there is the algorithm. First we were told post on Notes and now not a big deal if you post on Notes. I've noticed a great deal less views on my stack and I wonder how that affects engagement. I try not to dwell on it too much.
I have a feeling they want to shift more to audio/video, as that's what the market wants. They are very keen to bring over big Tik Tokers and YouTubers. But I really hope that doesn't become the focus. Because we have to keep writing alive! 😎
You've got the sensors out. I mean video is cool. I notice I look at videos too. But I also like writing. A totally different skill and expertise in that. They may compliment each other but not interchangeable.
Hello Co-Create and welcome to this space! I love that part about specific feedback request. That means you know what areas in your work need attention and you concentrate on that. How are you finding that works? Trolls vs etiquette lack is another matter altogether and yes you are right it’s your space you need to deal with accordingly.
The feedback structure works well. I think a lot of creatives end up in a trap of taking feedback personally (good and bad) rather than just taking it as information.
Excellent point! Information and you can or not relate to it and it doesn’t have to resonate. Take what you need and move on.
1) receiving feedback? If it’s a typo or grammar issue, I fix it. If it’s clear they haven’t caught up with the serial, I suggest they do that.
2) giving? Only when asked (aside from typos. Thank god for DMs so I don’t have to publicly comment those any more) and then vewwy vewwy carefuwwy.
3) posts that are free to read but only paid subscribers can comment; podcasts or talking head videos with no transcript (hey, I actually prefer to read)
Yes I forgot about those read but no comment posts. It took me a long while to get that when I was new here. But I found a way. If you restack with a note, you can comment and do them a favour too by restacking. Thank you for being here today Leanne!
Absolutely. Pay to Comment, that is crazy. I've seen quite a few doing that. Although, I've also seen a couple of people who clicked that option by mistake and didn't realise they'd done it! 😎
It’s not that I’m back, I just found some free time. The thing about commenting on paid posts, is that you can’t open it up to free comments. If it’s a paid post, only paid subscribers can comment.
That's right. That makes sense for Paid content, and that keeps all that separate for those Subscribers. But what's stranger is when the post itself is free to read, but the comments are locked to Paid Subscribers only. There are probably several reasons why people do this, such as deterring trolling or just because the amount of Comments is too much otherwise, but it can cause a frustrating reader experience... 😎
Hi Ben! Great to see you! I think it was referencing posts you can read fine but having comments that are paywalled.
I did see @The Man Behind the Screen complain that the option for paid commenters only kept coming on even after the turned it off. But still, it’s annoying. @Writer Pilgrim I do like the idea of restacking with a note!
Could there be a glitch on the system? Restack with a note. But then again if they don't want comments why would you promote their work, comment or engage with it? I've read from some creators that they want to spare their community and keep them safe because they get personal on comments. I keep my comments open and find that people get quite personal. At the end of the day, you post something online in a private comments box with the potential of 1-1000 people looking at it, screen shoting it etc, you cannot be serious about worrying about the personal aspect. It's on the page, it's online, it's access to anyone and everyone. The other aspect, which I think is more realistic is not so much about the welfare or the audience, but more about the time consuming point of answering to posts. At least the paid members are getting comments acknowledged. The rest will not be able to post. It's easier to manage a limited selection of subscribed readers.
And would you believe, the latest Song Title Post has just gone to 'Paid Comments Only'. So I can't reply to Gloria. I know it's not your fault, and it's just the way Substack have the Paywall situation set up. But the irony! Just as we're talking about it. Haha... 😎
Oh no, I just unlocked them a few days back. Are there more? Must have gone off today. I will check and unlock.
I think the A-Z ones are all fine, this is the current one that has slipped behind a Paywall, with the Film Soundtracks... 😎
That's an excellent point. It probably does make sense for people with thousands of Subscribers to lock the Comments to Paid only, as it could easily get unmanageable otherwise. I wouldn't do that myself, because I want everyone to feel welcome to express themselves and be part of the community on my page, but of course, I don't have hundreds Commenting! Haha. It could also be to deter trolling, for sure... 😎
Sorry, I missed it again! I appreciate you mentioning me, and your patience. So although I’m late to the party, I will say
1) I love honest feedback, whether it’s positive or negative.
2) I generally go with the rule that if I don’t have anything kind to say, I say nothing at all. (Please folks, I do not read a lot of posts, so don’t think my silence applies to you!— I try to limit my time on Substack because it works better for my lifestyle)
3) I agree with you on the people that tell me how successful and wonderful they are straight up front, as though I would be an idiot not to subscribe. The other thing that bothers me are folks who badger people about proper formatting of poems, or punctuation… I mean, as long as you get your point across, who cares if you are writing traditionally, or in a style that is all your own?
That’s my two cents.
Happy to have you over and answer these questions. The formatting thing, if a poem is a poem and written like a normal piece of text, I struggle to see the poetry effect. It steals away some meaning. I know that’s something I need to work on and the artist’s own creativity and decision, but it ain’t that easy. It’s like a song without melody. I guess some poets, refuse to realise they write poetry and let it be in whatever shape or form.
I agree that a poem should have some kind of poetic structure. That’s not what I was referring to. I saw a good poet get badgered because of where and when he used a comma. And although pause can be important for meaning, I had no problem catching the meaning—but this guy would not let it go. It did not involve me, I just happened to notice it with someone else I follow, in the comments section.
It was like an Oxford headmaster handing out lashes, lol. I do not mind someone adhering to tradition, but different forms of poetry have emerged in the last 300 years, which, to my knowledge, have been accepted.
The comma police in action. At the end of the day, as a creator you need to decide. And the critics will always want to have a field day one way or another right?
I don’t know how much time I have. The wife’s sleeping beside me and feeling under the weather. We’re at my cousin’s house in Assendelft. But feedback? That’s a hard one for me. I don’t get a lot of it. I put my stories out there, and maybe get three or four comments. Some of them are absolutely amazing, and leave me feeling gob-smacked. I’ve yet to have anything negative. I do have a paywall up, and leave a little of it up for people to read, hoping they might want to sign up, but it’s not a big deal. If they want to sign up, they will. I’ve taken to reading my Sunday After Eight stories in video format. I didn’t do that because Substack brought that option in, I started doing it before they made their big push. I also put the printed version up with it as well. Some people want to read, and some people have issues and prefer to hear the story being read to them. I get very few comments though. So I’m up in the air as far as comments go.
I like to leave comments when something strikes me. I don’t want to leave critiques, because this isn’t a critiquing page. I will point out spelling and grammar issues, because we all want that. I tend to leave long comments, as I’m sure some of you have noticed. It’s not that I’m an expert here, but sometimes people want to hear things from a different perspective. Nobody knows what’s going to hit or miss, and if telling someone they’ve hit it out of the ballpark is going to make them feel good, why not? We all like that adrenaline rush. I know I do.
Having been away on vay-cay has been great for me. I’ve got the wife’s old iPad and have been using it to work on my serial THE SHIELD OF LOCKSLEY. I’ve been writing and editing it at the same time. It’s one of those paywalled pieces though. I’ve gotten nice comments, but I only have 20 paid subscribers. But that doesn’t matter to me. I simply have to give them something different from the After Eights. I’m thinking of leaving the first part up for free and maybe pushing that a little harder. Maybe finding some comments along the way.
I have a book tube channel and have been trying to figure out how I can synced them both together. I don’t get a lot of comments there either. I guess that means I have to up my game. Lately, I’ve been thinking of making my own stop action video commercials. That might bring in comments. As it is right now, I just plug away at my stories and hope for the best. It’s like making spaghetti. I throw it against the wall to see what sticks.
First of all great to read this and get a different viewpoint! My only critique is that no one throws spaghetti against the wall! Surely! Hahahahahaha.
Hope vay cay goes well and that wife feels better. Lots of adventures for you guys. 20 paid is good! I think in order to get comments you need to get to visit other creators and comment on their stuff and they get back to you as returned favour, not obligation and that brings in others who notice you. That’s my experience. I don’t have the insider info as I’ve done all on my own when I started from scratch in here. I didn’t bring anyone from anywhere else.
I think Feedback is great, particularly when you're posting in a public place like this. It's good to hear what people think, and what they're enjoying, and what you can improve on. No matter how experienced you are, there's always room to learn new things and grow, so I welcome any Comments. It's interesting to Note that getting no Comments and Likes is also Feedback, I suppose. I've changed tactics on here quite a few times, when it was obvious people just weren't into things.
I enjoy giving Feedback, too. I try to leave Comments where I can. Usually positive. I don't tend to go into too much depth here, as I also do occasional paid consulting work, where I critique things very fully and even offer guidance on where changes should be made and so on. Mostly for scripts, but sometimes Fiction as well. That, I think, is a much more personal thing anyway and is something that should be asked for if the writer wants help in that way.
I agree with others, the Paywalling is a big issue on here. I personally think the way things are set up at the moment will probably need to change soon. It just doesn't work and people can't enjoy the work they want to enjoy. They would be much better having a single monthly Subscription that gives you access to everything, the same way Medium and Kindle Unlimited do it, and then everyone shares in a portion of the money when one of their articles is read by a paid Subscriber to the site. Of course, it would mean people would earn less overall, but it would give more writers a chance to make money from their work, as people wouldn't be in the position they're in now where they can only realistically pay to Subscribe to a small handful... 😎
Chen made some really useful comment on the lack of feedback. It’s not necessarily about talent but readers have so much else to get through and read and not everyone opens every email. But of course, if you have let’s say a few fave stacks you tend to check on them regularly. Still, we cannot avoid the main issue, the quality of work because we beat ourselves up about that again and again.
It's just incredibly difficult. Because of course, you can end up thinking the quality wasn't there when things don't do well, but you're right, it could also just be bad timing. People just have too many things to read on here. I'd love to read more, but I'd never get any of my own work done! I do manage to keep up regularly with about a dozen Stacks, though... 😎
You don't wanna get too carried away. In the first place, you want to do your writing and your projects.
Absolutely. You have to make your own writing a priority, and ensure you're always keeping things moving forward. But of course, regularly reading the work of others is important, too, as it's not only entertaining, it also helps you grow and can open your eyes to new possibilities! 😎
Hello everyone.
It's been a few weeks. Busy at work and then my little vacation over to Iceland.
1) Hmm. Feedback. Yes feedback, it is a touchy subject. Of course, we all like to get positive feedback and great comments. Negative feedback, not so much. As you say, Pilgrim, analyzing the reasoning behind it can be interesting. Do they have a point, or are they just in a bad mood and your post/comment is the first one they see. Unless they offer a positive suggestion, I usually just acknowledge and ignore.
2) I try to give constructive feedback wherever it is warranted. Negative jabs do not do anyone any good in the long run.
3) Annoying things on Substack:
- I agree with the pay walling. A paywall in the middle of an article is so annoying.
- Sometimes when you comment on a Note, the platform sends you all the way back somewhere else so you need to scroll down to find the Notes you were just reading. Gets tiring after a while.
- The repetitive handful of people plugging their courses or workshops on how do be better on Substack. I'm OK with the "being a better writer" Notes and posts, but the others, not so much.
That's my 2 cents worth this week.
Welcome back Sunhats! How was the trip to Iceland? Are you preparing a post on this? There's a lot of plugging going on for sure. I may be one of them, hope I'm not plugging away too much.
Trip was amazing!
There will be several posts, for sure!
Can't wait to see them!
1. When it's positive I often think they're just too kind. Or that it's some magic. a wonder.
Unless it's very detailed.
When it's negative I go through usual stuff-defence(no one can see it), maybe sadness, maybe amusement...sometimes I also think they're too kind to give me feedback.
To put it briefly: I take it seriously, and according to how I am. Even more seriously, I take the lack of feedback.
But I won't write according to it all -I'd want to, but all in me will scream that I'm a sell out, that it's not me.
Advice can be superhelpful, -I wish I 'd get more advice.
OK. it starts being too long as I write as I think, and my thoughts are especially disordered right now.
2) I write what I feel. It can be too overwhelming, I think, I can get very passionate, and start rambling-so sometimes I make a separate note of it, so it won't clutter other people's pages. I also ask sometimes what's appropriate-in advance. It feels like I'm often not very appropriate. Not in a bad way, just..too intense?
3) I don't know about three things, but I kinda dislike Notes in general. They're too....FB vibe. If I wanted to be on FB I'd be on FB. Maybe my mood contributes to it too, I don't know. I like the fact that posts can be shared-that's how one saves things and finds what to read etc. otherwise...overwhelming. And I'm not witty these days. And not very social. To put it mildly.
You give us such valuable things to consider here Chen. What I've seen from your work is that you write your own poems and you also do translations of work to English from Russian and Hebrew right? How do you deal with feedback on work that you've translated?
Thank you
yes, more or less....sometimes I'd translate to Russian which frankly how it should be, only I'm bad at all of them, so))
Most valuable feedback is when people know the languages in question, so if they tell me it's good it makes me really happy. If they say nothing-I, in my head, think "I didn't do a good job"
If others like it I'm also happy -it means I did manage to capture something important.
Usually people are too kind to say "hey your translation sucks"))
What's the lack of feedback you think? Why does it happen?
when nobody reads, or reads but I've no idea what they think?
actually reasons can be very neutral, for example I was getting couple Stacks in my email for a few years, without knowing that it's on some Substack which is a platform-and one can like, comment, etc. Somebody recommended to me these-and I subsribed without much further attempts of participation, just like you would to anything. Reader mode only
-or some people know it's a platform etc, they just prefer reader mode, at least in your case
-or some people subscribe to too many newletters, they hardly open them all
-or they have different email for all that jazz that they check only once in a while
-or they have their own thing going on and are not in the mood
-but I of course first think that I don't deliver, they don't like the post, I disappoint them, they come for other things, and am talentless whatever. All of which are also valid reasons.
All reasons are possible! You could write the best piece and get little notice. Marketing and getting restacked is needed too.
There's so many reasons why things don't do well on here. I think the biggest one is that people just don't have the time to read everything. A lot of it probably is just luck and timing. I guess the more content you have up, though, the more chance there is of someone spotting it. So we've just got to keep Posting and hope for the best! 😎
There's so many reasons why things don't do well on here. I think the biggest one is that people just don't have the time to read everything. A lot of it probably is just luck and timing. I guess the more content you have up, though, the more chance there is of someone spotting it. So we've just got to keep Posting and hope for the best! 😎
Hello, everyone! It's been a few weeks! I'm glad to be back. I hope you've all been well!
1. I am still learning to use feedback. It's difficult to know when someone is giving you honest feedback. You have to find people you trust who aren't afraid to be honest.
2. I try to find something positive to say, especially if I am being critical. Most written work has room for improvement and praise.
3. I haven't unsubscribed from anyone's newsletter. Substack is a rainbow in the mirky skies of social media. I rarely see anything bothersome.
Thanks for hosting this event, Pilgrim! Sorry that I haven't been a regular lately!
Great answers! Very diplomatic! I agree most writing has positives and of course room for improvement.
People may also be afraid to give honest feedback. You need to have that rapport and some kind of knowledge of where the other person is coming from.
Rapport is a great word for this situation!
Welcome again Rod! It’s football in the UK, Euros, Denmark England so it’s quieter. Football takes over.
Thanks! I can understand that!
Interesting 🤔 I look forward to reading the different feedback. Thank you!
Would love to have your answers on the 3 questions if you have the time.
1) How do you use feedback? --Well first I gotta get feedback. Most are scared of me : )
2) How do you give feedback? --Of course I say what you want to hear. What kinda jerk do I look like? I'll tell you what kind. If Stephen King wanted my honest opinion, I'd slap the smug grin off his face
3) Share your top 3 annoying facts about Substack --1. The Substack 'bot is a hopeless fool. 2. When someone Unsubscribes from you, you aren't told. 3. When someone Blocks you, you aren't told.
Chen is right on the unsubscribe. Go to Dashboard, choose settings, top right of page (using computer) and scroll down to Notifications where you click or unclick so you find out when someone unsubscribes.
Oh this is good to know because I always end up wondering who it is! Sometimes I think it’s one of my email newsletter people making an account on Substack.
2, you are, actually-it's in functions somewhere. I'm always told when someone unsubsribes. I get supersad each time. Maybe I should turn it off
PS I always love reading your comments, feedback or not
Aw that's lovely.
Hi Richard and welcome back! I wish I could follow whether you are serious or joking or both. Then I remember you posted about this a while ago. Cleverly so! Do you want people to be scared? Is that like a thing? And why would you say what I want to hear. You don’t do that in here though.
I'm always joking. Seriously joking, or jokingly serious. And thanks to Chen for the work-throughs. I'll try these, but as with the 'bot, it's like I got a different interface. Things don't work, and the 'bot says he (she?) will send it up the ladder. I never hear back.
And your other questions are darling, Ms. Writer Pilgrim. I don't remember posting anything about this in the past. But writers tend to sound like themselves, no matter what they say. And no, I don't want people to be scared. But I got a lot of opinions, and that scares (some) people. Is it a thing? I don't know. You need a couch and a pen and notebook. Finally I rarely read other's work. Writers make lousy judges. They try to make everyone write like them : )
Love that last comment! Writers can be readers, possibly your reader. But should someone make you sound like them? Most definitely not.
If you never hear back from the bot on queries and stuff check spam on your email that’s where they get back to you normally.
Say here's one of my issues. I clicked "LIKE" on this comment. Do you see it? Because I don't.
No I don't.
Thanks consider yourself liked
Hi everyone!
Hope you've been having a great week.
The England game is on for another hour or so. But I'll be back later.
Have fun... 😎
They're playing terribly. But it was only the second game. At least it wasn't a loss! 😎
Oh no sorry to hear! But Denmark is a good team!
And there's much stronger Teams ahead. It's not looking good so far. But things might pick up! 😎
Yes, keep it positive! Good players, good coach! I hear Germany is good again this year so let’s see what happens. No losses so far right?
No losses. They won the first one, and just got a draw in this one... 😎